Healing Through a Trauma-Informed Lens: Insights from APSATS President, Jeanne Vattuone

In this episode, host Tara McCausland speaks with Jeanne Vattuone, LCSW, CSAT, and current APSATS president. She explains the evolution of the trauma-informed treatment model and its benefits for the betrayed and the betrayer over the traditional co-addict or co-dependent model. Jeanne also details the APSATS multidimensional partner trauma model phases: safety and stabilization, grief and mourning, and reconnecting and rebuilding. The episode underscores the importance of specialized care for both those struggling with sex addiction and their partners and how understanding the impact of trauma helps relationships heal. Jeanne emphasizes the necessity of proper education, consultation, and certified training for effective therapy, as well as the roles and values of the Association of Sex Addiction Partner Trauma Specialists (APSATS).

00:00 Betrayal Trauma Healing: Insights with APSATS President, Jeanne Vattuone
02:42 Journey into Sex Addiction and Partner Betrayal Trauma
04:58 Founding and Evolution of APSATS
16:06 The Importance of Qualified Therapy
20:05 Understanding Trauma vs. Other Models
23:34 Grief and Mourning Stage
23:47 Transition to Post-Traumatic Growth
24:12 Non-Linear Healing Process
25:37 Reconnection and Transformation
26:41 Challenges in Recovery
28:06 Compassionate Healing
31:47 APSATS Resources and Support
35:43 Trauma Model in Practice
44:19 Closing Thoughts

Chapters

• 0:00 Betrayal Trauma Healing: Insights with APSATS President, Jeanne Vattuone
• 1:51 Jeanne's Recent Activities and Roles
• 2:42 Journey into Sex Addiction and Partner Betrayal Trauma
• 4:58 Founding and Evolution of ABSATS
• 16:06 The Importance of Qualified Therapy
• 20:05 Understanding Trauma vs. Codependent Models
• 23:34 Grief and Mourning Stage
• 23:47 Transition to Post-Traumatic Growth
• 24:12 Non-Linear Healing Process
• 25:37 Reconnection and Transformation
• 26:41 Challenges in Recovery
• 28:06 Compassionate Healing
• 31:47 APSATS Resources and Support
• 35:43 Trauma Model in Practice
• 44:19 Encouragement for Newcomers

Transcript

Healing Through a Trauma-Informed Lens: Insights with APSATS President, Jeanne Vattuone

Tara: [00:00:00] Jeanne Vitone, LCSW, has helped those impacted by traumatic experiences for over 25 years. She is the co-founder of Willow Tree Counseling, which is an intensive outpatient clinical group that specializes in the treatment of sex addiction and partner betrayal trauma. Jeanne often speaks about these important topics on a local and national level and co hosts the podcast [00:01:00] Conversations on Sex Addiction and Relationships.

Jeannie is a Certified Clinical Partner Specialist Supervisor, a Certified Sex Addiction Therapist Supervisor, and a Certified Partner Trauma Therapist Supervisor, and offers consultation and training for those who are seeking these expert specializations. Jeannie currently serves as the president of the board of the Association of Sex Addiction Partner Trauma Specialists, APSAS, and has actively volunteered on this board of directors since 2018.

Welcome to the Pathway to Recovery podcast. I am your host, Tara McCausland, and I'm so pleased to have here with me, Jeanne Vitone. Welcome, Jeanne. 

Jeanne: Thank you, Tara, for having me. I'm so happy to be here. 

Tara: Jeanne and I met a few years ago, and I'm so pleased to see you again. And you've been busy. 

Jeanne's Recent Activities and Roles

Tara: You've been very busy. Maybe tell us a little bit about what you've been up to in recent years.

Jeanne: In recent years, and that's the amazing thing in this [00:02:00] field is there's so much to do all the time in advocacy work or education work and such like that. So I am busy with my practice. I'm very busy with APSATS and just for the listeners, Association of Partners of Sex Addict Trauma Specialists. Very busy doing that work and making sure that I make time for my family and myself.

Tara: Very important. So I'm really curious because as you were describing before we started, you work on both sides of the equation here. You are a CSAT? And you are now president of APSATS and you work with people who are struggling with both issues of betrayal trauma, and sexual addiction, which is unique and wonderful.

Journey into Sex Addiction and Partner Betrayal Trauma

Tara: So you see this holistically but maybe back up for me a little bit and tell me what drew you to this field. 

Jeanne: Right, of course. Yes, so I am a certified partner specialist with APSATS as well as a certified sex addiction therapist, CSAT. So what brought me here? [00:03:00] I had moved to this area, which is Northern California, and previously in my professional career, I had done trauma work.

And so I had done about 15 years of intense trauma therapy, working with those who had been abused, neglected, assaulted, and experienced domestic violence. So a lot of trauma work. And I got here and met my current business partner, Tim Stein. And we were in a consultation group and he was starting to work in sex addiction.

And there was a term called co addict at that time, referring to the betrayed partner. And I didn't know what that was. What's a co addict? I don't understand what a co addict is. I have some experience in addiction, I have some understanding in addiction, but I don't know what co addict was. So as he described it, which was the prevailing modality at the time I said, “That doesn't make sense to me, but as a trauma [00:04:00] therapist, this is what I see.”

And I basically reorganized my own concept and the treatment for the betrayed partner. And he said,  “That's interesting. I've never heard that before. Let's try to share some clients.” So we started working together and what happened? No surprise. Families, couples started to heal. Betrayed partner, felt seen, validated, educated, understood the trauma perspective. Addict was already working in addiction. And then we try to start helping them understand each other's processes. 

Because trauma healing and addiction treatment are very different. That was 14, 15 years ago at this point. And then I went on to seek education and started finding more like minded people with a trauma lens. And that's how I actually came to meet APSATS. 

Founding and Evolution of APSATS

Jeanne: And I remember meeting Barbara [00:05:00] Steffens at a conference and saying, “Yeah I'm working with a trauma lens. What's APSATS, what's this organization?” And APSATS had just launched. So this was 2011 and I stayed involved with APSATS. I was not one of their founders, but stayed involved and continued to progress.

And Tim and I have built Willow Tree Counseling and all of our work is partner sensitive with addiction and addict sensitive to partners. So really helping those who are still in a relationship to understand each other's processes. And if they decide not to be in a relationship, still understanding what's happened in the whole system.

And I got more involved with APSATS, joined, obviously got certified and joined the board of directors. Actually I, sorry, got certified, then I started supervising and offering consultation hours for APSTAS. Then I joined the board and then I became president [00:06:00] three years ago. So it's been a good long relationship with APSATS focusing on betrayal trauma.

Tara: So how many years ago was that again, that you stepped into this realm? You were seeing this modality, the co addiction that didn't make sense to you. How long ago was that? 2009. Okay. APSASTS was created in 2011. 

So you came to that on your own because of your experience working with trauma survivors and then saw the fruits of what you were doing, which was this work. And I think that's so helpful because sometimes I think there are a lot of different ways that we can approach addiction and trauma, betrayal trauma specifically.

But what are the fruits of what it is that we are doing? And here at SA Lifeline, we do really appreciate APSATS because we feel like that model makes sense. And that resonates with partners and it resonated with my mother. So anyway I just love that you came to this on [00:07:00] your own. 

Jeanne: Yes. And you say it resonates with betrayed partners. And I'm going to offer, it also resonates with those who are struggling with addiction because they're looking across the dinner table and not understanding what's happening. 

Tara: Yeah. 

Jeanne: And so when they too can learn the modality of trauma as what's happening and the different stages that APSATS teaches, it makes sense to them, which allows them to have perhaps a little more grace, a little more patience, a little bit more loving, a little bit more leaning into the pain of the other person.

It makes sense to both people in the relationship. 

Tara: Yeah, great point. Thank you. And again, that is something that we try to educate both sides of the spectrum about addiction. If you're a betrayed spouse, and if you're dealing with addictive behaviors, because it won't make sense without good education around what's really happening here, what's happening in the brain.

Jeanne: They're so different. I will [00:08:00] often say to clients, “One is a specialization in cardiology, which is very different than someone who is an ophthalmologist focusing on eyes. The processes, the symptomology are very different.” And so if we can educate the system and value the betrayed partner's experience, which hasn't been done in our field historically, it's really changing the dynamic in the family. 

Tara: You talked a little bit about APSATS. And thank you again. It's a long acronym. I won't even try and say it. But do you want to say anything more about how the organization came into existence? What the values of the organization are?

Jeanne: Yes, of course. As my story is, that happened for others. Barbara Steffen, Dr. Barbara Steffens did some research back in 2006, I think her PhD dissertation was, “Looking at Trauma Symptomology.” And was that [00:09:00] perhaps what was happening for betrayed partners? Her statistics are super high. It's in the high 70s of her sample size that yes, folks were meeting the criteria for post traumatic stress disorder. That's a very big deal. 

So out of that, she and Marsha created Your Sexually Addicted Spouse book, which then lots of people really resonated with and were reaching out. And then those wonderful women started talking with other folks who had a more trauma perspective. And the like minded people came together, it's a very grassroots story. People coming together saying, “This is working for me. This is, hey, this is working all over the country.”

And so those people got together, worked so hard and created APSATS. And so the official launch was 2011. Again, I met them in 2012 at a SASH conference. So those founding [00:10:00] members worked so hard to create this organization that really values the betrayed partner and values changing the treatment landscape for betrayed partners. 

And also I want to make sure folks understand, APSATS is a training organization. So we train coaches and clinicians in our multidimensional partner trauma model, which I can talk about in a second. But we train the folks with a betrayal trauma lens and all of the different kinds of impacts and sensitivities that can occur for a betrayed partner. 

We're very big advocates. So that's another one of our missions. It's to advocate in the world. So train, advocate, certify, and we would love to get into research. We do all that we can to support empirically based research because that also changes the landscape of treatment for betrayed partners.

So [00:11:00] APSATS is a very active organization. And if anyone's a coach or clinician and wants to do this work, apsats.org. Please come find me. I'll talk with you. Because the more professionals who understand this work, the better folks' experiences, lives are less painful. 

Tara: Because this is a newer field and change takes time, we know. What challenges do you see for clinicians and like the field in general adopting this view or this modality? What pushback do you see? 

Jeanne: I think there is some pushback from folks who maybe haven't been as current with research and education. I think for some folks it's difficult to change. They've got a program, they're used to this program, and they feel their program is successful. I think change is difficult for a lot of people.

Sometimes there's pushback because [00:12:00] there's a lot of labeling of certain behaviors. I'll use the phrase controlling, “my partner is controlling.” And I would say the reframe is “They're seeking safety. They're trying to understand and feel safe, emotionally, physically, sexually safe.”

I feel really confident in this model. Again, I've seen the progress, the healing. And so when that pushback comes, I say, “Yeah, I hear you. And what about thinking about it this way instead?” And I think education over time is the way we're going to change some of the cultural beliefs, perhaps in some groups, some organizations, and individuals.

Tara: Thank you. So I appreciate you again, telling us what APSATS is. It's a training organization and some of those values of advocacy and wanting to get into research. What though, tell me, what does it mean to be an APSATS provider? 

Jeanne: And that's a [00:13:00] really important thing that when folks are seeking providers, it's a great question to ask. “Are you APSAT certified? Are you an ABSAT certified person?” And there's a difference between certified versus trained. So I'll make sure to talk about that. So for APSATS, again, we have the multi dimensional partner trauma model. And that is a multi phase model which I'll say right here, there's three phases, which is very important again for both partners in the relationship.

So the first phase is safety and stabilization, which is “What is the truth? How do I work with the ups and downs of a trauma response? I'm not crazy. I'm experiencing trauma.” So the hypervigilance, the intrusion of thoughts, difficulty sleeping, difficulty eating, highs and lows of mood, that really is in safety stabilization. Therapeutic disclosure is in safety [00:14:00] stabilization. So many pieces of, “What's the data?” 

And then we're also going into the next stage, “Grief and Mourning,” which is “Now, how is that impacting me? What have I lost? I'm reworking what I thought my life to be.” Perhaps not everyone goes through this process. I don't want to say every betrayed partner has a betrayed partner trauma response. That is not accurate, but a lot do. 

So in grief and mourning, it's “What was my life? How do I make sense of it?” And the brain is working extra hard to reorganize. The impact is deeply felt. This is very heavy grief work and anger.

And then, with a good provider coming through to phase three, which is reconnection to self, reconnection to others. Trauma symptomology has really evened out. [00:15:00] A lot of folks in the trauma world will also call this post traumatic growth, which is, “I have learned so much about myself. I'm the 2.0 version now.”

So to be certified with APSATS, you go through the MPTM training, which is a four day training. And then to become certified, you need to do supervised hours with an approved APSATS supervisor. And that is really “How do I implement this?” It's greater awareness of “How does this show up for my clients?”

We do lots of groups. So you get to hear a huge variety of clients and implementations of the model. And that's to be certified. It's all with a trauma informed conceptualization of the partner's experience and sensitivity and awareness to the addiction process.

Tara: Thank you. So there's quite a lot that goes into that. And we at SA [00:16:00] Lifeline, we talk a lot about qualified therapy. That's a part of our recovery puzzle as we call it. 

The Importance of Qualified Therapy

Tara: Why in your experience is it so critical to have a qualified clinician who understands trauma and addiction? What is the worst case scenario if you're dealing with a clinician, a therapist, or a coach that it's not on their radar, they don't have any specialized training, worst case scenario.

And then what, on the flip side, what can you hope for when you have a qualified therapist? 

Jeanne: Yeah. And unfortunately these stories still occur with very well meaning providers. Very well meaning coaches, clinicians who are well trained, but don't know this field. They may accidentally offer guidance, suggestions, which reinforces that there's something wrong with the betrayed partner.

They are too controlling. They are not having enough sex. [00:17:00] And if they had more sex with their loved one, maybe their loved one wouldn't do this behavior. So there's this implication at times that it's “their fault,” which we know is not true. Addiction is running addiction's course and betrayed partners are impacted.

So if someone is not trained, there is a higher likelihood they may give poor advice, which then causes another layer of trauma. And we call that treatment trauma. I just, so many stories are coming to my mind, I have to slow my brain to find.

So that's the risk. I've had clients that said, “I was told that I needed to have more sex.” They were in couples therapy, and she was uncomfortable with some of his sexual behavior, and she was told that she was frigid, and if she was more accommodating.”  So that would require her [00:18:00] to go against her own set of values, her own comfort level, her own sexual comfort with her own body, to be more sexual with him in a way that didn't feel emotionally safe. And the provider was encouraging her to do so is not an okay thing in our world. And I want to say there are so many good providers not knowing the context of what's really going on. 

There's the other side. Sometimes folks go to couples therapy or they're working as a couple with a coach and the other provider is not trained. So they may miss some of the indicators that perhaps an addiction is present. For example, this person watches a lot of pornography and so therefore doesn't “every guy do it?” If it's causing a difficulty in the relationship or someone wants an open marriage and they're exploring that when [00:19:00] really it could be part of the addictive behavior, having sex with others. So it's just mistakes and misguidance, which have profound effects that ripple into the years of a coupleship. So you want a provider who can understand perhaps there's an addiction present. Maybe we should have an assessment. 

Perhaps there's a betrayal going on and that's why the betrayed partner is angry or sad or seems crazy. I hear that one a lot. So having people who understand, who can give appropriate context to what's going on and proper assessment, because proper assessment leads to better treatment. So super important to have someone who understands this field. 

Tara: Yes, thank you. So you've described the multidimensional [00:20:00] partner model, which is a three phase model. And I'd love for you to talk a little bit more about that. 

Understanding Trauma vs. Codependent Models

Tara: But also, sometimes we don't know what really the difference is between a trauma model versus a codependent or co addict model.

And I wondered if you could compare and contrast those a little bit for us. And maybe what are some telltale signs that maybe you're working off of a codependent or co addict model and may not even be aware of it? 

Jeanne: I would say the absence of the trauma information is going to give you a clue. In my mind, the first order of business is to assess clients, but also educate, which is another one of APSATS’s strong values is the education of the community, but education of your clients. 

And is your provider talking about trauma symptomology? Are they talking about how to help stabilize the emotions, the [00:21:00] moods, the dreams, the difficulty sleeping? Are they using that kind of language? Or is the language, “How are you enabling, what are you doing, that's causing your loved one to act this way?” And so a lot of betrayed partners felt very blamed and still do. “What are you doing in the relationship, or not doing enough in the relationship?”

Those kinds of phrases and expressions, when someone walks in the door of treatment, then you know, you're not in a trauma model. There may be a day later that one says “What's my growing up? What's my way of being in relationships?” That could be very appropriate, but it is certainly not appropriate in the front stages of this work. 

We will often say of betrayal trauma, “This is like someone who comes to the emergency room and they have been shot and they're diabetic, [00:22:00] which do you deal with first? You're going to deal with the crisis, the emergency. You're going to help with the gunshot. You're going to deal with the trauma chaos.

You'll get to the diabetes, other stuff later, but we're going to deal with the trauma because to ignore that leaves the person in great pain. And so one of APSATS really strong commitments is educating, whether we're educating our clients, educating other groups, being on podcasts, offering our training, really to change the landscape for betrayed partners.

Tara: Yes. I love that metaphor. And actually a lot of people that we've had on this podcast have used a metaphor of a car crash and that you've been injured in a car crash, no fault of your own. And of course, yeah, like we're not going to ask the person that's just been in a head on collision, “What's your [00:23:00] back history? What are your family of origin issues?” It's totally inappropriate. 

Jeanne: It is inappropriate at that stage. And the car crash is really great because a lot of betrayed partners, when they have discovery or realizations or full understanding of some impact, they do feel physically run over. I mean, the emotional impact is so physical. So I like your metaphor too. 

Tara: Yeah. Let's go back to the multidimensional partner trauma model. And you had described what those three phases were. And we have talked to some extent about safety and stabilization. 

Grief and Mourning Stage

Tara: We had Jake Porter on talking about the grief and mourning stage. But you were just saying that there will come a time when we do have some safety and stabilization, the partner can then move into grief work. 

Transition to Post-Traumatic Growth

Tara: When do you know you're ready to move into stage three, which is that post traumatic growth and tell us more about what that looks like and how as a clinician and APSTAS clinician, you help [00:24:00] partners with that.

Jeanne: I'm going to tinker a little bit. It's not that I'm ready to move in. It's really as an observer, as a provider, I'm watching where my client is. 

Non-Linear Healing Process

Jeanne: And it's not that, I want to make sure that folks don't think it's linear. We do this, and then we grieve and then we're fine. Not so much. It's more of a safety stabilization, a tumultuous period of time starts to simmer down a bit as grief and mourning start to increase. Now, if there's a relapse, someone is probably going to go back to safety stabilization for a while. And then probably if safety is provided and people take that very seriously, move back into grief and mourning.

And then grief and mourning could be very large. And then the grief starts settling down and you're going to start to hear people talk about, “What would I like it to be? I'm thinking I'm [00:25:00] going to go back to school. You know what? I've always wanted to write that book.”

You're going to hear these subtle shifts. And so it's an evolution. I want to make sure that people don't think, check I am now through one because there's a lot of checkbox kind of thoughts and mentalities in addiction work, which is very behavioral task oriented. You want a little more spirit in that work. And so for betrayed partners, it's a flowing towards, but that is always the goal is to get to however long it takes is very individualized, but into the reconnection, which is like the reconnection to self.

Reconnection and Transformation

Jeanne: “Who am I in the world? Who would I like to be now? Now that I've been through this experience, I can see,” and this is really hard for betrayed partners on the front side, “I can see the silver lining. I don't want this to have happened to anyone, but I'm grateful for what I've learned about myself [00:26:00] through it.”

Or if we decided to stay in our relationship and work towards a better relationship, I call it 2.0. “I'm grateful for what we have now. I could never go back to what that was.” So the post traumatic growth is, “What have I learned about myself? What do I want to do differently that's more satisfying, fulfilling for me? In my individual self, as well as my family?” So it's this beautiful transformation that's happening.

Tara: We hear often enough, like, “How long is this going to take?” They want a list of to dos. And you're absolutely right, this is not linear. 

Challenges in Recovery

Tara: What dangers do you see for people who are working their own recovery and also for maybe clinicians or organizations that maybe are trying to rush that a little bit? 

Jeanne: Yeah. No, we hear, “How long is this going to take?” I hear a couple of things. Sometimes I hear a client say, “Why don't I feel better?” And then sometimes I [00:27:00] hear the one who is struggling, the betrayer, “Why isn't my partner better, he or she feeling better?”

And then that's a question of “Okay, what's not happening in the system.” Are people fully surrendering and accepting? Have they jumped in with both feet to do the addiction work? Has a betrayed partner been supportive to get their own therapy, coaching, support in a betrayal trauma way? So what kind of level of work are people doing? What kind of level of acceptance is happening?

Are folks working on, particularly I'm thinking of the betrayer here, working on that defensive posture that can happen, which I understand is very natural. It's protective. It's hard to be accountable. It's hard to be so responsible when you feel great, perhaps, shame that you harmed your loved one. But those are some [00:28:00] key tenets to tending to and having compassion for the betrayed partner.

Compassionate Healing

Jeanne: And again, understanding addiction treatment is very task oriented. It's very behavioral. Lots of homework. You're changing neural pathways. You're practicing and practicing those new coping skills, and you have to figure out where it all came from. 

That's very different from a betrayed partner, which is restabilizing “Who I am in the world.” Helping their brain calm down out of a limbic system chaos. Helping them feel safe which then helps them and their brain settle down to do healing work, trust building work that takes a very long time. It is not task oriented. It is not homework oriented. It [00:29:00] is tried and true over a long period of time.

And so there is a big difference, and I think that's really important, that they each understand the treatment process is different. But if someone is feeling stuck, or they think their loved one is stuck, it's a great question of “Why? What are some of the barriers? What's getting in the way?”

And without blame, looking to see what those barriers are and then, okay, how can we assist? Being very careful not to blame partners. But I also don't want to blame those with the addiction. So it's really compassionately coming forward to what's going on that is maybe in the way of this progress. And it takes a long time. Trauma healing takes a long time. 

Tara: Yeah. And rebuilding a relationship from ground zero takes a long time, right? That trust doesn't happen overnight. It's [00:30:00] built drop by drop. And if there is a relapse, then you go back. 

Jeanne: You do, you go back. I would hope that you don't go back. It feels like you went back to the beginning. Hopefully you didn't go all the way back to the beginning. I often use, “Every day is an opportunity for a trust coin in the trust bank.” And over time, that piggy bank gets heavier and fuller. That's the kind of stuff you're going for, but it takes a lot of time. Because you're healing that attachment wound, that rupture of trust, that rupture and security of who I think you are and who you are with me, that kind of stuff takes time. 

Tara: So much patience involved here, which can be, generally as human beings, patience is not something that we are good at.

But yes. This work is a test in patience and being, as they say in 12 Step, [00:31:00] in the present time, one day at a time, be where your feet are, because otherwise it can feel really discouraging. But I think you would be able to say, and we'll leave this to the end, there is hope. There is hope. There is a path of healing.

Jeanne: There absolutely is. I don't know that I could do this work if I wasn't regularly seeing people working hard, people finding meaning, people making changes. And that's what has always attracted me to trauma work. And this kind of addiction work is, my clients work hard. And APSATS, our APSATS community being out there, those clients work hard for their healing and healing is possible. Recovery is possible. And I see it every day. 

APSATS Resources and Support

Tara: Because we have the president of APSATS here, since APSATS trains coaches and clinicians does APSATS offer any information to the general public? 

Jeanne: Yes. So that's another part of [00:32:00] our mission statement of education, right? Education to coaches and clinicians who come to us, who would like this kind of training to bring that into the client world.

We have multiple things that are available to the community at large. So let's start with our podcast, Betrayal Recovery Radio, which you mentioned Jake earlier; it is currently hosted by Jake Porter, previously hosted by Carol Jurgensen Sheets. So Betrayal Recovery Radio is out there for everybody. 

The other thing we have for those who are religious leaders, but not coaches or clinicians. We have a betrayal trauma, religious leader training, which teaches about the trauma perspective and talks about how you integrate and implement that in your faith community. So that's for religious leaders. 

And then we have for coaches, clinicians, or any professional, they don't have to be [00:33:00] APSAT certified or involved with APSATS, we have a monthly one hour lecture. It’s always something regarding betrayal trauma by different people in our community. And it's very low cost. I want to say $25, I think. And that's happening every month. 

And then lastly, two years ago we launched our conference. And so this is a bit unique, I think, in the world. Our conference, by the way, isi in February 2025 and can find that at apsats.org. We have a three day conference. The first day, the public is welcome. So folks who are betrayed partners or loved ones of betrayed partners, as well as the professionals can attend that first day. So they're getting high quality education from leaders in our field.

And then the other following two days are for coaches and clinicians. You don't have to be APSAT certified. Any coach and clinician can attend the professional [00:34:00] training. So professionals can attend all three days. We ask that members of the community who don't have that kind of training are only attending on day one. But that's going to give them five-ish different speakers who are leaders in our field. 

So the other part is that folks can go to our website and find a professional. So if you're looking for someone who is APSATS certified or in the process of becoming certified, you can go to APSATS.org, click on, “Find a professional,” put in your address and you're going to find who's nearby. So we try to make our information accessible while also staying true to our mission of training the public and training coaches and clinicians. 

Tara: Wonderful. That's great to know. And is that a hybrid conference or is it only in person or only virtual? 

Jeanne: What a great question. Thank you for asking because I forgot to say that. What we've decided to do is we are going to go every other [00:35:00] year. So February ‘25 will be online. And then in the winter of ‘26, we'll be in person. 

Same with our multidimensional partner trauma model trainings. We offer three of those a year, we've been doing online. We always did online and in person before COVID and then went fully online and we're going, in ‘25, we're going to start bringing in persons back for that as well. So we'll have that online and then fall ‘25, we'll have an in person MPTM training. 

Tara: Wonderful. That's great, great info. So February 2025 for that APSATS conference. Very good. I have a couple of final questions for you. 

Trauma Model in Practice

Tara: So recognizing again that change takes time and this is a relatively new model, multidimensional partner trauma model. What suggestions, what advice might you make to groups, organizations who are seeking to be [00:36:00] more trauma sensitive? That change takes time. Education takes time and money and resources. Any thoughts about that? 

Jeanne: I'm back to education encouragement. There are a lot of free resources. Podcasts such as yours, podcasts, so many different, very qualified reliable resources that are available to anybody.

Looking at the podcasts, doing the education. These days, I'm so grateful for, when I started there were two books out there and now there's a lot more. So if you're in your bookstore or Amazon, which has everything, looking for betrayal trauma and just reading about it, considering it. So free resources are out there. Low cost resources are out there. You want to do more, get into some training. 

With groups who may not be familiar [00:37:00] with betrayal trauma I would like to really encourage some education because the field is changing. And why is the field changing? Because the new treatment modality is working and is appropriate. So if someone is having more of a codependent or co addict mindset, whether individually or organizationally, I really encourage them to start to review the recent research, the recent articles out there, because I understand that this is a big change of perspective for some folks.

And it's working. And when we have research, qualified research, showing the benefits of a betrayal trauma model, that's not surprising to me. But in the research community, in the journals, you're finding that being validated. So what used to be anecdotal, what I heard on my couch, [00:38:00] is transforming into actual research data. And that is changing the treatment modality. 

When you start talking to some of the inpatient facilities, they understand the trauma model. When you're talking to folks who have been educated in the last ten years, they're talking about the trauma model. So for anyone who may be not quite sure that this is what's happening for them, or not quite sure that might be a match for their organization, I encourage you to dig into some of the data and the research because it's all going to be trauma betrayal these days.

And it's so prolific in this way because it's so successful and when people are feeling better and healing as individuals and as a unit and the research backs that up, you're on to something. So I just really encourage folks to consider other points of view. [00:39:00] If perhaps this is not a match for them, please do consider and learn about it. 

Tara: I really appreciated that at the beginning of this, you were talking about how this approach isn't just helpful for betrayed partners. This is helpful for the unit, the marriage unit. And we know, and we've seen on in our organization that when people dealing with addiction start to come to understand trauma, not only for their partner, but for themselves, there is more healing. 

Could you speak again briefly to how you are finding that the trauma model is helping heal couples and families? Do you have a specific experience you could share? 

Jeanne: Yeah. The folks who are struggling with the addiction, when they make sense of the trauma symptomology and even the multidimensional partner trauma model and the phases that often betrayed partners go through, they create, in my mind, a deeper compassion.

For example my [00:40:00] business partner, clinical partner, Tim Stein and I are writing a book and it is a partner sensitive addiction book. And currently we're in draft form and we use it in our groups. And so we were just having a conversation the other day in groups and one of the individuals was saying how learning about the multidimensional partner trauma model, learning those phases of trauma really helped him understand what was happening for his wife.

Because instead of being completely overwhelmed and confused by what she wants or needs, or “What do I say, what do I not say, how do I help?” Reading, this is the progress, these are the symptoms, this is what's happening in each stage really helped him to say, “Oh, she's needing safety and stabilization. That's what's happening. Okay.”

Which allowed him to sit back in [00:41:00] his chair a little bit, work to hear her emotions, not necessarily the complaint part, but hear the emotions and be able to respond to the emotions. Which then had the outcome of the betrayed partner felt heard, understood, connected to, empathized with. Which then allowed them to have a very different kind of conversation later in the day. 

So I really firmly believe, because I see this, that when those who are struggling with addiction really understand what's happening for their partner, it can also change the way they interact with their partner, which has a beautiful, tending, compassionate experience.

Now, I will also say it is not always as lovely as I just expressed. It's hard. And it doesn't make sense. And when one [00:42:00] limbic activated brain is talking to another limbic activated brain, it doesn't always go so well, but knowing, “Ah, the limbic brain safety stabilization, okay. What can I do to help? ‘Cause I don't want this to get worse. So how can I be a helper in the moment that changes?” It changes the dynamics in the relationship and they start to become a unit working together. 

Tara: Oh you put that so nicely and I love how, again this education piece is so critical because otherwise without that understanding of trauma, then again, she just looks crazy or resentful, unwilling to forgive or move on, whatever. But if you can take that step back and say, “No, this is a safety seeking behavior,” it becomes less personal for the person dealing with the addictive behavior. 

Jeanne: And therefore [00:43:00] they can lean in. And that is exactly what APSATS was created for. So many partners were reaching out saying, “I've been told I need to forgive. I've been told I'm crazy. I'm the problem. The blame is on me. He's an addict because of me.” All of these things, which are inaccurate. So if we can shift the lens that we're using, shift the lens we're looking through to talk with, interact with, be with betrayed partners.

One, it helps the betrayed partners. Two, it helps the system. So when we have accurate glasses we're looking through, things look different and they're going to respond in a more positive way. So this is exactly why APSATS was created is to help clients, help people, help families change the landscape of the treatment modality.

Tara: I've enjoyed this conversation so much, Jeannie. Thank you [00:44:00]  for your time. And before I let you go, may I ask the final question that we always ask, “What would you tell a newcomer who's just stepping on to this path of recovery?” And “What would you tell someone that's been working on this for a while?” That maybe needs a little bit of a boost. 

Encouragement for Newcomers

Jeanne: So the folks who are just coming in, what an opportunity. Because truly I have seen, it brings tears to my eyes. If you can get the right kind of help right away, someone who, and this is for a betrayed partner and those struggling with addiction, if you can get the right kind of help, people who understand the nuances of sex addiction, people who understand the nuances of betrayal trauma, and how they impact the other person, you are starting this healing journey with the right tools. It makes such a difference. 

That's so important because I've seen the other, which is folks who have been on this road quite a [00:45:00] while and wondering why it's not moving, why it's not growing, why it's not progressing. And I'm always saying, “Have you found the provider who is specialized, who has specialized training in this area?” Because that makes all the difference. 

And being around others, so your peer group, your community, whether for Betrayed or Betrayer, having a community that encourages education, encourages and supports, but also challenges. Because no one ever wants to be in an echo chamber. So everyone has blind spots and so having the right kind of trained people around you makes the biggest difference. 

Tara: Thank you again, Jeanne. You are doing such important work and so grateful for your efforts in this field. So needed. So keep up the great work. Thank you. 

Jeanne: Thank you. And thank you so much for having me. APSATS, we want to [00:46:00] be out in the community sharing this message. So thank you so much for inviting me.

Tara: Yes, absolutely. [00:47:00]