Step 8 - Healing Families Through Willingness w/ Jon I

In this Pathway to Recovery episode, Jon I. shares his journey of addiction, hitting rock bottom, and ultimately finding healing through the 12-step process of SAL 12-Step. He discusses the process of working up to and including Step 8, which involves creating a list of people harmed and becoming willing to make amends. Jon describes how the real struggle wasn't making the list but finding the willingness to forgive those who hurt him, including himself. Through prayer and the support of his sponsor and fellow members, Jon learned to soften his heart and confront past resentments, which led to significant personal transformation. His recovery process wasn't linear, as he relapsed once, but ultimately, it was through humbling himself, staying committed to the program, and seeking connection with others that he achieved long-term sobriety and healing.

Jon’s recovery journey extended beyond personal transformation; it also deeply impacted his family. After a relapse, Jon faced the threat of losing his marriage and family.  The SAL 12 Step tagline of "Recovering Individuals - Healing Families" is very prominently testified of throughout this conversation. He emphasizes the importance of connection in recovery, particularly through reaching out to others, as this was a lifeline for him. His story highlights that recovery is an ongoing process requiring vulnerability, humility, and consistent action. Jon’s closing message is one of hope and encouragement, urging both newcomers and long-time members to stay engaged, keep working the program, and lean on the support of the community: “Keep coming back. It works if you work it, so work it. You are worth it.”

Transcript

Jon I - Step 8

[00:00:00] Justin B: Welcome everybody to the Pathway to Recovery podcast. I'm Justin B. I'm a son of God and a recovering sex addict living in the miracle of recovery one day at a time and I'm really grateful to be a co-host of this really cool project that SA Lifeline Foundation has going.

And I'm excited to continue on this journey that we've been doing with the steps of recovery, the 12 steps of recovery. Today, we're going to be covering step eight with John, a good friend and fellow in the rooms of recovery to me. And I'm grateful to have him here with me. So let's just jump right into it, John, why don't you introduce yourself and tell us: Why are you in the rooms of SAL? 

[00:00:40] Jon I: Sounds great. I am a recovering sex addict, sobriety date of 10/1/23. I remember my very first encounter with pornography at age 12. And it was, sadly, something that stuck with me for the rest of my life. I still remember it. And I got into the addiction in my teenage years and really struggled with it.

And it was sad because I'm old enough, sadly, that pornography and masturbation weren't even mentioned as addictions. Nothing was said to me as I talked with church leaders. I grew up very religious, in a very religious home, and I struggled with the shame of being a disappointment to God and to my family, and kept it to myself for several years.

And then as I was finally able to talk to someone, addiction wasn't even mentioned. And so it has been something I've struggled with my entire life and brought it into my marriage. It was a very big burden for my family and I went through a time of discovery with my wife about, I'd say, going on 10 years ago almost and found a little sobriety for a short time, a couple of years, and then relapsed and stayed in it.

And so I was really lost for one, I had to lose everything I had to find some recovery. And I didn't think recovery was possible. And over a year ago my wife found out, caught me again, and we separated and I lost my membership in my church and I spiraled.

[00:02:24]I thought, “I've got nothing left. I'm a father of two kids and I just felt like such a huge disappointment to them.” And my therapist gave me a list. I started going to a therapist and he gave me a list of groups to go to and one of them happened to be SAL. And I thought, “All right I'll give this a try.”

And I found a meeting and I went to it on a Thursday night and it was amazing, it truly was, to go into that room and see some men with some years in recovery. And just I found hope and found brothers is what I really found. And for the past year, I've worked the steps and I've just found hope and hope for the future.

[00:03:13] Justin B: Wow, thank you for sharing that, Jon. Very powerful, vulnerable and just a good story. You mentioned that you first ran across pornography when you were about a 12 year old. As you look back now through the eyes of someone who is working recovery, when do you think the addiction happened?

A lot of people will say, “Hey, as a kid, you can't be an addict. It's not going to set in. You've got to do years and years of this stuff before you become an addict.” What is your experience with that? And when do you think, as you look back, that you suddenly were powerless over this and your life was unmanageable?

[00:03:51] Jon I: Honestly, from that first time I've seen it, and it's interesting because I think back and I think I'd seen movies before with maybe sex scenes or, some sort of type of pornography, but those pictures, that's what started the lust. And I remember, just thinking about them and I couldn't stop.

And it wasn't until a few years later that I started acting out with pornography and masturbation, but that lust had started right then and I couldn't stop it. 

[00:04:34] Justin B: Yeah. So do you think that's typical for somebody who may see pornography for the first time or do you think that's something that maybe you and I may be hardwired with, whether it be personality or brain chemistry, or whatever it may be. Do you think that anybody who sees pornography once or even for a few times can be, is an addict? 

[00:04:50] Jon I: I have addictive behaviors. I know I have addictive behaviors. And so I think it's different for everybody and that there are some people who can see it and “Oh, that's not a big deal.” Like I've known people who can drink and aren't alcoholics. And yeah, I very much believe that there's some that just, they have that addictive tendency and this is our drug.

[00:05:12] Justin B: Thank you for sharing that. And that's my take on it, too, is that, there are people that can have a glass of wine with dinner every night and not be an alcoholic. There are people that can go out and get high every once in a while and not be a drug addict.

There are people that can every once in a while, see pornography or watch movies that have sexual content in it, but they aren't dwelling on it for days, weeks, months, the rest of their life. And you and I, it's sad. But now I look at it and my past is my greatest asset and it has become my superpower, not lust, but my dependence on God. Do you have any thoughts on that process in your own experience? 

[00:05:52] Jon I: Very much and it's as we were talking before, we mentioned the last step, step seven, and Kahi mentioned that our past can be our strength. Our problems can become strengths. And yes I'm very grateful for this journey that led me closer to my God. Because it's, again, I grew up with a belief in God and thought I had a pretty good understanding of who my God was and my Savior. And yet coming into these rooms and finding, being humbled to desperation where I just had nowhere else to turn, I found a deeper connection, understanding of God and came closer to my God, not only through His love, but the love that He shares with my brothers. They're instruments in His hands that buoy me up in my dark times. 

And in this past year, I can't tell you how many times He's reached out to me through my brothers and just made life possible. Yeah I very much know there's a God and without this experience, I wouldn't have become so close and wouldn't have found [Him]. 

I would have leaned more on myself because when I really struggled with my addictions, I was leaning on myself and my own understanding and my own strength, which is not much, especially compared to a perfect being. It's nothing. And He brought me to my knees and said, "Hey, you.” And I found my life unmanageable and out of control and He's the one who can help. 

[00:07:29] Justin B: And I want to sit there for just a minute. We're going to be talking about step eight, but I want to dive in here because I think there's something powerful that can be shared here to somebody who may be coming in and listening to this not having listened to previous steps.

One of the hesitations I had coming into the rooms of 12 step, and one of the hesitations I hear from a lot of people, especially people who have a pretty strong faith background, is this concept of higher power and God of my understanding, and being really resistant to that, that we're creating our own higher power here. Talk to me about your experience in your growth of understanding who this God of your understanding is over the last year. 

[00:08:10] Jon I: Yeah I too, was something like, “You can't change God,” but it's not changing God, it's changing my perspective of God, because at the time of acting out, I thought I was living a double life very well. I knew God knew, and so I didn't feel worthy to pray. I didn't feel worthy to ask for help for myself, and I just felt God was, I had a vision or a picture of God and He was a very authoritative figure that was very disappointed in me. And I could only go to Him when I was clean. 

And I know I can go to Him no matter what now. Because I came to Him broken and He wants me to come to Him broken because that's when He can heal me. I came to a just a greater understanding of what God is for me. And I think that's powerful.

As I've talked with other guys in the 12 step groups, God is almighty and powerful and every one of us sees Him in a different lens. Even all of us working in the Twelve Steps together, we see Him differently. But what I have been able to find is just a God full of mercy who loves me no matter what. Yes, He wants me to do my best, but when I fail, He's still there. And it helps me because I have a son, I have two kids and so I see both of them in such a greater light of compassion and an understanding because I love them no matter what. Sometimes they disobey me, but I still love them and I would never stop loving them.

[00:09:55] And coming close to my God helped give me a greater perspective as a dad. And being a dad helped me know, “Yeah God is real and His love is real.” Even though I felt that way. I felt he was so disappointed in me that I couldn't even look Him in the eye. And I can't wait for that opportunity to see my God and know that no matter where I'm at, what I've done, that He loves me. 

[00:10:25] Justin B: And this is powerful, and I think I want to stick here for another minute. Jon when you say, “He loves me no matter what, when I make mistakes, when I mess up, when I fall on my face, whatever that looks like, He still loves me.” And yet, you're sober more than a year now. 

Some people would, I know I would in early recovery, if someone says, “Oh, God loves me no matter what,” I'd be like, “Sweet! I'm gonna act out all the time because He'll still love me.” Tell me what motivates you now to stay sober with the knowledge that God loves you no matter what.

[00:11:01] Jon I: Yeah, no, definitely, “Because I got a free pass, God loves me no matter what.” But I think I do it now because of His love, because I love Him. And, that's in the Bible. It says, “If you love me, keep my commandments.” And I do love Him. And just want to be the best I can for Him. And I think giving myself that grace when I fall, because normally what would happen, I would relapse and just feel horrible and shame would fill my life and I'd spiral in depression - “I can't come back from this.”

And feeling that grace from God and giving myself that grace gives me the chance to say, “No, I can get up and go again.” And I love God and He loves me and because I love Him so much, I just want to do everything He asks of me.  And I can see the same difference in my children when I ask them to do something in love or when I ask them to do something and I'm angry, there's much difference in how they respond to me. And yeah, doing it for the love of my Savior helps so much. 

[00:12:01] Justin B: No, this is good. And Jon, I think we can mix this in really well with step eight when we start talking about that. The love of God is, I see this as the “up” column. I see like an atomic explosion. Love of God is “up,” and the mushroom cloud is the “out,” and that's to the others. And that's where step eight really, we start getting into action with repairing that relationship with others. We repair the relationship with God, and then it moves out. 

So what I want to do, Jon, here, is I'm going to read the first eight steps of the 12 Steps of Recovery, just for those who would like a refresher on it, who may not be familiar with it, so that we can get to that. And then we'll cover, we'll dive into step eight here. 

So here are the 12 steps of SAL. Step one, we admitted we're powerless over sexual addiction, that our lives had become unmanageable. Two, came to believe that a power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity. Three, made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood him.

Four, made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves. Five, admitted to God, to ourselves, and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs. Six, we're entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character. Seven, humbly asked Him to remove our shortcomings, and step eight, made a list of all persons we had harmed and became willing to make amends to them all.

So there we are. We're at step eight. Jon, talk to us a little bit about your understanding of step eight.

Jon I: Yeah it's, like you said, a great step of action. And I looked at my life and said,”Man, I have hurt so many people with my addiction, namely my family. And so I've made a lot of mistakes and step eight is I need to make a list, go through my life and look at people I've hurt and I need to become ready to make amends to them. And I love the word amends. It's not to apologize to them, but to make amends. That’s another action.

[00:14:11] Justin B: Yeah. So talk to me about the difference between apologizing and amends. Tell me what that means to you. 

Jon I: An apology is, “Hey, I'm sorry, I messed up this time,” and stating it, but amends is trying to put it, actually doing it in action with it and whether it's financial, whether it's a service, but to put things right. Yeah make things, to fix it.

[00:14:33] Justin B: All right, so as you had that list, or as you made that list, where did you pull that list from in your working of the steps? Where did you pull the list of people you had harmed from? 

[00:14:44] Jon I: As I did step four, a lot of people that were resentments and things I'd done on that list I used on my step eight. And it was, as I was preparing to talk with you today, I listened to another podcast that talked about step eight, the daily reprieve. He mentions, “We've always had this list in our lives.” And I thought, “Yeah, I can go back clear to elementary school and the people I've hurt.”

[00:15:11] Jon I: And so I started with people I directly hurt with my addiction. And of course, like I said, my wife and my children were at the very top of that list. And that was my main focus at first. These are the people I've hurt and that I directly used in my addiction and hurt. And that was family members, people I'd lied to during my addiction and my sponsor really challenged me. He said, “Okay. Yes, these are very important, but dig deeper. You've got a whole life you've lived that you've harmed people with your addiction.”

And I started thinking about man, there's the people I was rude to because I was so self centered and caught up in my own life and not just with my addiction, but people I'd harmed in everything. Like I said, I went back, started looking at elementary school, kids I hadn’t been kind to. And in middle school and in college, just every aspect of my life I started thinking of what I'd done. 

And it was great because, I thought, “Okay, I'm done,” and I'd stop writing to think, and then another one would pop in my head as I was working. “Oh yeah, I totally forgot about that situation.” And one of them was a boy named Mark in middle school who, because of my own insecurities, I bullied him. And I feel horrible about it now. And that was something that I let go and forgot about until I started making this list.

And so the list grew. Oh, 150, 120 people, I can't remember exact numbers, but there were a lot and in different aspects. Because sometimes it was people that I just had resentments against because, again, of my own insecurities, that I felt, “Man, I don't like this person and what they've done,” and held on to resentment. And, they might not have even known, but I know I needed to apologize. I needed to make amends for that. 

[00:17:09] Justin B: Yeah. So Jon, in your experience, you're working this step. It's growing 120, 150 people, whatever that number is. How in those situations do you keep from spiraling into shame as you're doing this work?

[00:17:23] Jon I: That definitely was a hard thing to do. And that was stopping, taking a break from it, and contacting someone. I was doing this in the mornings as I started my day. And just, yeah, it's overwhelming to look at how many people I hurt. And especially even just thinking about what I did to my family just would bring that shame and the sadness. And contacting either my sponsor or one of my brothers and just voicing it and letting them help me and like I said before, I think that was one of the greatest things I've found is reaching out and accepting help from others. And that was what would help me get through making this list because yeah, it can be overwhelming to see the damage I have done.

[00:18:12] Justin B: How important was it to have a sponsor who had previously done this before?

[00:18:17] Jon I: Oh, essential. First and foremost his insight of, like I said, asking me to dig deeper because he doesn't know my personal life. He doesn't know the people I've hurt, but he knows from his personal experience that, yeah, there's a lot more than I initially thought. 

And so having him willing to say, “No, you can dig deeper,” and then being able to reach out and say, “Hey man, this is hard,” and him being able to say, “I know how you feel.” And yeah, not only for this step but [for] all of them, having a sponsor is so essential. Just that guide and that support are without a doubt necessary for working these steps. 

[00:19:00] Justin B: Yeah, thanks for sharing that. As you went through step 4 and 5, and in step 8 here as you're sharing these things with your sponsor, did you ever feel judged? Anything like that ever happened to you? 

[00:19:15] Jon I: Not once. And I think that's, again, one of the other great lessons I learned is, there's nothing I can do that will change the way my brothers, sponsor brothers think about me. Because I did at the very beginning, step one, I shared my step one with the group and I thought, “Oh man, they're going to think I'm a freak.” And to feel that love and support this whole time has been absolutely amazing because I've done some horrible things in my life. And for them to say, I think one person said, “If by the grace of god I haven't been there yet, but given time I probably would have.”

Or some guys just say, “Yeah, I've done that too.” That love and support, again, that's another example that helped me understand the same love that God has. Because if these guys can love me no matter what, who I've never met in person, but that hear my story and love me and support me, I know that God does too. 

[00:20:12] Justin B: Yeah. I want to sit there for just a minute. You just mentioned, these guys, your brothers, your sponsor, these people. You just said, 
“I've never met them in person.” Talk to us a little bit about the power of when an in person meeting isn't available, the power of online meetings and connection through that process. How powerful is that for you? 

[00:20:32] Jon I: Oh, amazing. I live in Northeast Washington, a very rural area with no meetings around. And so first and foremost, to have the ability to go to a meeting every day, a couple of times a day, if I need to, is so amazing. And then, I call people across the country, even across the world. I've called guys in Switzerland, Jordan, and it's amazing to have these connections with them and to feel that love coming from all over.

It's just so amazing and the words aren't enough. The love that I feel from them, the love that I have for them and it is a power unmeasured. I read about God's army, and the angels that He has, and these are the angels that He has on earth to help us. [It’s] so amazing. 

[00:21:33] Justin B: Oh, that's beautiful. I love how you said that God's army, the angels that He has on earth are these brothers that we get to interact with.  Jon, when I first came into the rooms, it was in person only. Then COVID happened and I thought, “What am I going to do?”

And all of a sudden, my little recovery network that was just the people I'd seen in person and a few people that I connected with went from I don't know, 30 people to hundreds and hundreds of brothers all around the world that that I can reach out to and that can reach out to me and [it] has made a huge difference.

I think where I'm going with this is, the person out there that's listening that says, “I need to have an in person meeting. I just can't do this without an in person meeting.” Give it a shot if you don't have enough of a network that you feel like you've got brothers. Do you have any other further thoughts on that, Jon?

[00:22:22] Jon I: Just amen to that. I thought, “Man, an in person meeting would be so cool and I would love to have that chance,” but it's not essential. Because like you said, the network that's available to us now. COVID was a hard time and most people look back at it like, “Man, that sucked.” But we can say the same about our addiction. Yeah, it sucks, but look at the power that it has given us. Look at how it opened up Zoom for everybody. 

And yeah, as I started this, I thought, “Oh, online's okay,” but it's amazing. I love it. I look forward to the meetings I go to every week. They are the best thing I get to do that week. 

[00:23:05] Justin B: So thank you, Jon. You just, I don't know if you saw, but I lit up when you said something. I made a note. This is going to go on my wall here that COVID is much like our addiction, it sucked. It was hard. It was disconnecting from people. 

But look what came from it - the ability to connect internationally is super cool. That is something that I really appreciate. Thank you for sharing that, Jon. It opened my eyes big time. Alright, let's talk a little bit more about step eight.

So the first part we've hit on a little bit. “We made a list of all persons we had harmed.” Let's talk about the second part. “And became willing to make amends to them all.” So as you made that list, John, as you went down it, were there people that you're like, “Oh, there is no way I can ever….”

[00:23:52] Jon I: Yeah. In fact, I'd say almost all my list, besides my immediate family, I was like, “Ah, I don't know if I can go tell this person, I'm sorry.” And I had a lot of trepidation on my part. And again, that's where a sponsor came in and he said, “Hey, God is willing to make amends with me. I need to be able to make amends with these people and to be able to give them closure and to help me heal.”

It's such a healing process and you know again, it's something that God has taught us. He taught his disciples to make amends. He said apologize, forgive those, to make these amends, to be a better person. And as I really looked at the need for me to be able to make amends and try and make things right, whether they accept amends or not is up to them, but I need to be willing to do it and put forth the effort.

And like I said, having the sponsor who helped me realize that need and then identify some of these you can't do in person. So with some of them, he helped me relax a little bit. But again, having someone who's done it and say, “Hey, you'll live. No one's no one's gonna kill you and it won't kill you to do it.”

And so that was very powerful to have that support and example before me. But it was definitely digging deep in my heart to gain the courage to make amends to all these people. And I think one of the reasons it was really hard is because I hate admitting I was wrong. As I humble myself and recognize where I have hurt and made mistakes, it heals. It helps others to see that “He's trying,” and above all else, it just helps me to heal.

[00:25:48] Justin B: Thank you. As I look back at my step eight experience, there were a handful of people on my list that I was like, “That person hurt me way more than I hurt them, there's no way I'm going to go and say, ‘Hey, you know what? I was wrong when I did this,’ to them. Did you have anybody on your list like that? And if so, how do you move through that?

[00:26:09] Jon I: Yeah I had a few of those and one was a former boss and I just felt he belittled me and degraded me and so I was justified in how I had treated him back and how I felt about him and how I talked about it. 

In fact, I didn't really come to understand it until step 10 and it helped me. It says, “When we have problems with people, first I’ve got to look inside and see what I did. And it comes with the serenity prayer, accepting the things I cannot change.

And you know what? Yeah, I couldn't change how he treated me or how he acted, but I can definitely change how I act and how I go forward. As I have interactions throughout my life now, I can't control those people. I can control me and so and I can control the amends that I make to this person. And again, it's up to them to accept it or not. 

But as I put forth that effort, the healing and the comfort it gave me was amazing because again, I was putting forth the effort to be better and to change. And yeah, maybe even the world would say [I was] justified, I could have been justified in keeping my anger, but I don't want what the world wants, I want what God wants. 

[00:27:42] Justin B: Oh, that's beautiful. I don't want what the world wants. Even if somebody says, “Dude, you're totally justified in being angry at this person.” I want what God wants. And God says to forgive everyone, right? It's easier said than done. 

But as you were sharing that I had a memory of a passage in the big book, it's one of the very last pages of the big book on page 552. But it’s this process that I think you were alluding to and that came to my mind. Do you mind if I read a paragraph here from the big book for us? 

Okay. It's on page 552 and it's the story of somebody who had a resentment against somebody else and there was no way he was ever going to forgive this person. No way he could even imagine seeing it. 

And the paragraph says, he said, in effect, “If you have a resentment that you want to be free of, if you will pray for the person or the thing that you resent, you will be free. If you will ask in prayer for everything you want for yourself to be given to them, you will be free. Ask for their health, their prosperity, their happiness, and you will be free. Even if you don't really want it for them, and your prayers are only words, and you don't mean it, go ahead and do it anyway. Do it every day for two weeks, and you will find you have come to mean it and to want it for them. And you will realize that where you used to feel bitterness and resentment and hatred, you now feel compassionate understanding and love.”

So as I read that, what thoughts do you have on that, Jon, or do you have any experience with something like that?

[00:29:17] Jon I: The exact same thing. We'd read that in a group and I think it was before my step eight, but still I was struggling. And I still struggle with resentments and people today. And so it's like you said, it's a constant struggle. 

And so I'm like, “All right, I'm going to do that.” And that was my goal for two weeks, to pray. And first I'm like, “Man, why am I praying for their prosperity? These people already have way more than I do.” And I was like, “No, follow the council.”

And it was amazing to feel the difference towards those people. And it was someone I was finally able to go to and make amends with, and that was, talk about a burden being lifted off, because that resentment…

I love it and it's mentioned several times, I think it's in the big book and maybe in the SAL book, “Resentment is trying to kill someone but taking the poison yourself.” And it was eating at me, that resentment, and as I forgave them as I made amends with them and went to them in person (it was one that I could make in person) it was so uplifting and like I said, just a weight lifted off of me. 

And now it's a person who I check in with regularly to see how they're doing because I now see that they're struggling too in life. Their lives weren't as perfect as I thought that they were and I was blinded by my resentment. And [it’s] just amazing, the weight that was gone from my life and the clarity that came to it. 

[00:30:50] Justin B: Oh, beautiful. And I love how you defined it,  “It was like a burden being lifted off.” And I think in that paragraph I read, I think the phrase “you will be free" is said three, maybe four times.

It's an imperative promise -  this will happen. If you do this, you will be free. Talk to us a little bit more about that freedom of being able to become willing to make amends to these people by forgiving them first before you go to them. 

[00:31:15] Jon I: I think what's awesome too is, just go back to that quote you read, even if you don't mean it, continue to do it. And I think that's one of the things for several of the people [on my list where I had to say] “Okay, I've got to be willing to make amends and I'm going to say it out loud and I keep saying it and then it becomes true.” It isn't just something I'm saying, but I really do forgive them and want the best for them. I can make amends to them because, yeah, all these resentments that I've had in my life, which I thought, don't affect me, but do, and the negativity that comes from it, is just astounding.

When I sat down and made a list of all my resentments, I was like, “I'm an angry guy.”  And I don't want to be. I want to find joy. I want to find peace and that willingness to make amends with them. That's that first step. And it doesn't relieve it completely, but it's the first step in the right direction. I'm loosening the burden a little and starting in that right direction and as I made amends, it's gone.

And sadly, maybe in the next two days I will have a resentment towards someone else and I have to worry about that. But like you said, I love it. It's not just a one and done step eight.

[00:32:39] Justin B: It's definitely not and that's why step 10 is similar to it, I believe. It's a constant process and I'm so glad it is, because I need it. Beautiful. 

Anything else on step eight that you're like, “I hope me and Justin talk about this,” or that you really want to bring up before we start going into the wrap up portion of this.

[00:32:59] Jon I: Just as I did it, I thought the biggest part, in my opinion, was to start and to make this long list of all these people. But the biggest part for me was that willingness to become willing to make amends. And, like I said, it took time. It wasn't you know, I made the list of them and now yeah, I’ll make amends and I'm done.

It was a process and it’s okay to take that time and in fact, very important to take that time and to truly give myself the time to really be sincere in my willingness to forgive, to make amends with these people and make things right in my life. 

[00:33:48] Justin B: Thank you, Jon. Okay, so early in this conversation, you said that you had to lose everything in order to hit your rock bottom. You separated from your wife. The kids were, I'm assuming, living with your wife. You weren't with them. 

Jon I: Yep. 

[00:34:15] Justin B: You hit a rock bottom that was pretty brutal. You lost your membership in your faith. The tagline of the SAL book is recovering individuals, healing families. Talk to me just a little bit about your journey. We've talked about recovering an individual here a lot. What does healing families look like for you at this point? 

[00:34:21] Jon I: I want to go back a little bit into my story. As I said,  about 10 years ago my wife found out I was an addict and that was another time in my life I lost everything. My wife left, my children were very young at the time and she probably moved home.

Again, I thought I was at a rock bottom and at that time, I lost my membership in the church I attended. I thought, “No, I can't go any lower.” And the reason I bring that up is to show how my short term memory is. Because I found some sobriety and I did the 12 steps, then it wasn't with SAL it was another group and I thought, “Okay I'm on the way.”

My pride, my arrogance, and my laziness crept back into where I was slowly stopping to do the things that I needed to and to where I relapsed a little. I'm like, “Oh, it's just a slip, but I can't say anything because I don't want to look bad. I've worked so hard to gain everything back,” because my wife came back after a few months. I worked to be a member of the church again, the church I attend, and I thought, “All right, I'm on the right path.”

And people thought I was on the right path. And I was for a time, and then I let things slip. And I chose my addiction again and sobriety, but I didn't have recovery. And that's the key point - I really didn't have that. So then the next several years, I was back into my addiction again, which was pornography, masturbation, infidelity, and it was just a horrible time. And again, I fought on my own because I'm that prideful person that I'm like, “Oh, I can stop.”

I was so afraid of losing everything again. And I was unwilling to bring my sins to the light of day, to bring my addiction back out and say, “Yeah, I need more help,” because I knew I'd lose everything again and I did. 

And this past year has been a year of finding true recovery and helping, hoping that I could be better. And as I said, I do believe I found true recovery. I've been sober for over a year and I've been working this program and it has helped my family. It has been a week now that my family has been home with me, that my wife is willing.

We were getting divorced. We'd got the papers, we were working on them and by the grace of God and healing, we're together. And again, healing too, for my kids. When I went through this before in their life, they were so young that they didn't know. They knew there was a time that dad wasn't around, that they lived away from me, but they didn't know.

And so this time they're teenagers and I humbled myself and let them know why we were getting a divorce and why things were as they were and [I] let them know that I am a sex addict and that I need help and I was looking for help. And they've been with me on this journey and they have shared love with me that I felt I didn't deserve.

But as I've come to know my God and I know I'm a son of God, worthy of love and worthy of my kid's love and my wife's even, it has been amazing this journey for all of us. And it's a long road ahead. 

There's so much more to do but I do know that I had to be humbled to know that I can't stop, I have a chronic disease that I need medication daily and that is my recovery work. That is going to meetings weekly, making a call daily and working the steps, being a sponsor and I can't stop that. I'm sad to say that I had to lose everything twice. 

But I'm happy to say that I've learned and you know, I'm just one of those people that are so proud that I had to be forced to my knees. But it is truly amazing, in SAL, the healing that can happen not just for the individual but for the family. I love what it says, wait for the miracle, the miracles do happen. 

[00:38:57] Justin B: Wow, Jon I'm moved and extremely happy for you and your family. I did not know that they'd moved back in just in the last week and a half or so. That is so awesome. And I'm grateful that your journey looks like that to this point. And I pray for continued recovery, healing of the family. That's awesome. Wow. 

I almost want to wrap up here, but I have two more questions that I have to ask. And those two questions are this: Jon, what do you have to say to the newcomer who is just coming into the rooms or who has just been muddling along maybe for years and not really getting into action with their steps?

And then the second question is, what do you have to say to somebody who's been in the rooms forever and maybe going, “I'm good. Maybe I should step away.”

[00:39:48] Jon I: First for the newcomers, you're not alone. And there are so many of us out there who love you already and are here for you. And there's so much hope, and even when you feel like there's not, there is hope. But don't lean on yourself. Reach out to your brothers, reach out to God, and you will find your way, you will find a way. 

And to someone who's been around a while, keep working at it. If anything's a good example, like in my life I had some good sobriety, but the second I let up, I started down the hill. And it's such a fast spiral.

And I think too, continue to reach out. That's what I absolutely love and I've said it several times already. It's the connection that I've found in SAL and these groups with my brothers because that connection is something I've missed my whole life. And I marvel at it because it's so simple. A phone call. That's so amazing. I can do that. And the first one was really hard, but make the call and it makes a difference. 

[00:41:04] Justin B: Thank you so much, Jon. And I'll just put a little plug in for that also. Thursday night, just what three, three days ago, my life was saved by a phone call. I can't say my literal life, but my recovery, my sanity, my serenity was saved by a phone call that happened. Miracles, God's hand is in this if I will let His hand be in it. And it's an awesome thing. 

Thank you so much for sharing. Jon, any final words before we close this out? 

Jon I: No, I just thank you for letting me share my story. And I pray that those who haven't found recovery [know] it's out there.

Justin B: Awesome. All right. Let's close this out together, if you don't mind with our closing phrase that we use in almost all of these SAL meetings we go to. It works when I work it, 

[00:41:56] Jon I: So work it. 

[00:41:57] Justin B: You are worth it.